Magic Ukulele Podcast
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Magic Ukulele Podcast
Tom Ziegenspeck: Harps, Mandolins, and Ukuleles. Oh my!
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Hello friends, this is Christopher Davis Shannon, and welcome back to the Magic Ukulele Podcast. Today we're headed to Germany to speak to Luthier Tom Ziegenspeck. I had the pleasure of meeting Tom last year at the Aluha Festival in southern Germany, one of the most incredible festivals I've ever been to. It's at a resort tucked away in the Alps. What could be better than that beautiful landscape, fresh air, and playing music all weekend? I got to sneak away for a little bit, play some of Tom's Ukes, and chat with him. And he really intrigued me in that his ukuleles are pushing the boundaries of maybe what we think of as an ukulele. He has some beautiful crossover instruments, some instruments that are modern versions of older instruments, and he's experimenting with some unique body styles. Let's see what Tom has to say. Tom, thank you so much for joining me on this sunny English morning. How are you today?
SPEAKER_02Hello, Chris. I'm absolutely feeling good. It's sunny over here in Leipzig, Germany as well. So I can see the sun shining through the winter on you and onto your books.
SPEAKER_00I know, and it's and you should know this is very, very rare.
SPEAKER_02It's like that one sunny day you have over the air.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. Well, I mean, we get one per month, that's fair. But you you know this because you used used to live in Wales. Um, that's true. And and there you were you were working with the legendary Pete Howlett. I uh used to, yeah. Um and how how did you come to to meet Pete and have a partnership with him?
SPEAKER_02That was a really funny, well, funny, uh interesting and very important story. Um I was studying um uh instrument musical instrument making, specialized on plugged instruments, so I was making classical guitars, and part of that uh study is making half-year internship in a factory or workshop, and yeah, well, I made just made an ukulele before because of uh a friend of mine who was giving me a set of Siri Coti, far too small for a guitar, so I went online, got myself a building plan for a tanner ukulele and just built it. And I was like, Oh, that was fun. I made about five guitars before, and I said, Oh, that's much more fun than uh building uh guitars.
SPEAKER_00I I agree with you, ukulele is much more fun than that.
SPEAKER_02It's just no, I just laugh. That's a bit smaller shaped, and yeah, it's amazing. And I went online and actually, I don't know why. I don't know why till today I was googling, googling, googling, googling, and not fighting Pete. Actually, uh uh Chuck Moore, more better uncle Lily. He I I wrote him and he said, Hey Tom, why are you not talking to Pete? He's much closer to Germany than US. And uh, I was like, Okay, just I I don't know why. I and then that day I wrote Pete and he answered, like, okay, sent me some pictures. I did that, and that it was the contact was very well. I I I don't know what to say, but then he said, Yeah, just come over for internship, yeah, half your internship, just come over. Wow, and and we haven't seen each other really, and and before, and then I went over there and I came into his uh workshop. You opened the door and we just fell in love. It was just like he is the he is yeah, it was just the best time of my life. So, but before this moment I walked into his workshop, it was all a bit like I haven't had any accommodation over there, and I just went there by car, and then he came and he was like, Ah, come here, I hack you, and then we yeah, and then the friendship started.
SPEAKER_00It was that's inc that's incredible. It's just yeah, and what a person to be able to learn from when you're starting making ukulele is one of the best, especially on this side of the world, yeah, at least. You're he is he is absolutely a legend. Um and then so how long were you in Wales for before you moved back to Germany? This was for for half a year?
SPEAKER_02So that internship was half a year. Then I I went back to finish my study, and after that, Pete that was the time he got diagnosed, diagnosed with the Parkinson's, and then he asked me to come back uh and help him out to make some more ukulele. Oh, okay. And that was in 2015.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so some of the Pete Hallets that are floating around have your your chisel marks on them as well. That's right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So, and that was another two years.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I want to talk about where you went to school in in Germany. I saw is the the town that CF Martin was born in. And I've I grew up um about a half hour from the the Martin workshop in Nazareth, Pennsylvania. Yeah, okay. Um so Martin guitars to me have always been kind of a sense of home, and it's it's nice to see that connection in Germany. I'll have to visit that school sometime and make the pilgrimage myself.
SPEAKER_02Honestly, you will love it. Um, that wasn't the school that well, that building was still there when Steve Martin was born, but uh at that time it was just the home of uh very rich guy because that is like a building you see, and it's like massive and nice, and yeah. But the whole village or city of Mark Neukirchen is um uh very world-known for instrument making, and yeah, and he was I think the the the fact was most of them was like uh at that time was like uh were like uh traditional building, like violins and guitar making, like sure, you have to do it that way, or it doesn't make sense. So and he was going the next step and building like steel string guitars a bit more futuristic that age, and then he he had to go to America because that was the the place to give him more freedom making what he is looking for, right?
SPEAKER_00And certainly made a name for himself in the States. And I love I love that you said his his designs are becoming a little bit more futuristic, because I have to I have to tell you that that's what initially drew me to your ukuleles. Um because of course we don't I I I don't just hang around in Germany and play everyone's ukulele, unfortunately, although I have luckily had the opportunity to play your your instruments at the the Luha Festival last year, but aesthetically um I love the futuristic vibe that you have in your instruments. They they don't feel Hawaiian or traditional, they feel they feel new, they feel fresh, but but with sort of a retro throwback, I get this this sort of 60s kind of futurist vibe from them. Um and I thought that was really beautiful, and I'm actually curious about how how did you come to developing the aesthetic of your insurance? Obviously, so much goes into the sound, but you have a very definitive aesthetic. If I saw a Zeke and Speck ukulele out in the wild, I would know exactly what it was in a moment, just just from looking at the inlays.
SPEAKER_02Well, but that is that's a good point. I think my design started with a special inlay that is like a compass rosette. Um, I now and then do, and this is something I learned from the very first workshop I used to work in. My years before I did the instrument making uh study, I was doing an internship in a workshop in the hometown uh Leipzig, in my hometown, Leipzig, where I'm at the moment as well. It was a guitar maker called Philip Neumann. He was like doing very uh classical Spanish guitars, and that was probably the base of my idea. Um, because well, when you start getting into something like that and you love it, you you pick it up like like a sponge, and then you're like, oh, that's nice, nice. But I kept some inlay work from Philip, redesigned it, and uh especially the well, but the shape I remember the shape I'm still using as my standard shape is uh based on an old um Markner Kirshen guitar maker who was a bit uh doing the the the the middle body part thinner than everyone else, and then this is what I do actually has that tight that tight waist to it. The tight waist is a bit smaller, and that makes it a bit more shapy, and and this is what I like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, which is interesting because that tight waist, that sort of figure eight desire, the the Nunez and Diaz ukuleles, the very early ones had that, but but on a much smaller scale, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_00But a similar silhouette. It's it's almost as if you've you've started reimagined that that traditional ukulele silhouette that we we don't see much today, uh, now that it's evolved to everything's a Martin shape. Um back to Martin, right? So many ukuleles are Martin style.
SPEAKER_02But as well, I noticed it's very important as uh like in the violin-making branch. Uh don't go too far away from the basic shape.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_02If you do that, oh people are very uh I don't know whether I'm feeling comfortable playing that. So do something special but not too special.
SPEAKER_00So but you you say that do something special but not too special, and then you you have a few instruments that you make that are certainly far, far, far removed from what we would traditionally think of as an ukulele. I I think the the least actually maybe the most traditional in a way, but also the least traditional is the the harp electric ukulele that you make, because obviously a harp design is is a very old design of classical guitar and ukulele. Uh, but you have reimagined this into is it a solid body or a chambered body instrument on that?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's solid but drilled out, so I do uh I do drill it out so I get less weight. Okay, if it's not drilled out, it will be about one and a half kilos, up to two kilos, so it's quite heavy instrument. Yeah, so um but so I just chamber it, but for a weight reason, not for acoustic reason.
SPEAKER_00Ah, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, but do you want me to tell you the story about the harp? Please please do it.
SPEAKER_00I'm curious because you make other electric ukuleles as well, which are just gorgeous, and I want to talk about them for a few reasons in a moment. But which came first for you, the the traditional electric that you make, or was the harp you sort of what brought you into the electric world?
SPEAKER_02The uh traditional just uh electric you was the first one, yeah. Um and but my but that came after I finished the university, the study of instrument making, and my final uh my yeah, my final instrument, my master instrument was a harp ukulele acoustic. And that yeah, I had to do this. I I I I was just thinking about it. Um I had to to build something like that to finish my study because uh the my my master class teachers they were all like kind of a bit smiling at me when I was building uh well, I made guitars, then I said, I'm making ukuleles now, and they said, Ah, okay, you're building these small ones now. They were a bit like looking into that with a smiling eye and saying, Ah, okay, not really accepting the standard of ukulele, so sure. I had to make something like shell inlay, flamedwood, high clause finish, and it had to be not just like an ukulele, it had to be a harp ukulele, something very special. So I made it and it was the best instrument of the of the year, so that was okay though, but um yeah, that was the only acoustic harp ukulele I've ever built because the the making it is quite a bit uh work, so I can imagine not not that exp uh not that cheap. So um the idea of the hub E came up uh just to make an hub ukulele that is more affordable, so it's easier to make a solid body than an acoustic body harp.
SPEAKER_00Certainly, and if you're going to plug it in anyway, the sound doesn't matter that much, right? Yeah, absolutely. And you do use a use a piezo pickup in that, right? That's right. Under saddle, but oh an under saddle, okay.
SPEAKER_02Under saddle, and for the harp ukulele, I developed a stereo pickup system. You can switch in between, or you have like a stereo uh jack, so you can put out the the base the bass strings and the treble strings separately, so you can put different effects on the bus strings and treble strings, or oh nice, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's um because yeah, it's uh a lot of performance options, absolutely and and speaking of pickups, you're I think the only Luthier that I know that developed his own pickup. Um, and I you it it it's a piezo soundboard transducer, of which there are of course many, but I've I've heard a lot of you've your pickup in them, and they all sound great, and I think it's it's really proof that a piezo is not just a piezo.
SPEAKER_02There are that's and that's the point. Yeah, you will laugh. You will laugh because uh well, the these uh coin size piezo elements. I use 20 millimeter uh piazzo elements, and this is the size I think for soprano to baritone oculated. That's the size you need to pick up the sound, and and you just need one. Um for guitar it's different. Uh but and these ones I get from the UK, okay, still and always.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's not right.
SPEAKER_02Well, I don't know, but these are not and they are different. I of course I already bought some from AliExpress, China, and tried to compare compared and tried. But these elements from from UK, they're just they have so much output, it's like much more um than the the other ones, and this is an element I can work with, and then yeah, I saw the the the cables and and I well this is all I I do in my workshop then, and yeah, so I didn't invent the pickup, but I think I made it more functional for the ukulele.
SPEAKER_00So what brought you into saying I need to make my own pickup with with so many on the market already? Were you were you dissatisfied with the options that you had used?
SPEAKER_02Well, actually, yes, uh, but that happened already in Pete's workshop. Um, we we he was having these uh piazza elements in there and and then we soldered them together because we had to shorten the length of the cable. Every other uh provider of uh of uh Piazzo pickups, they they offer them in far too long cable length. So it's wobbling around and clicking and clopping, and it's like you have to put like zip wire on it, and and it just doesn't work properly uh properly. So I uh was thinking of why not doing it in the right length for a tenor size ukulele, there's no cable wobbling around.
SPEAKER_00That's the main idea behind my pickup, and I think this is why people buy that because it's the exact cable length you need, and uh yeah, yeah, and pat and passive and simple, which I always think is is great. Um, less things to go wrong inside the instrument because obviously working inside an ukulele if something breaks is very hard. Um I want to hop back to your we we mentioned your traditional, well I say traditional, but your your electric ukulele that you you make, not not the harp one, but the regular one. Um and I'll link to Tom's website, obviously, so everyone listening can can see these instruments because it it it words don't do them justice, they're really beautiful and unique instruments. Um, but your electric ukulele is is interesting, and I believe you market it as both for nylon and steel strengths.
SPEAKER_02Uh okay, um I they are able to do both. Well, then it's important to know before the building process because uh these days I mostly do the the the knot and pull-through bridge, you know, and not the pin bridge. For the uh uh steel string, you have to have uh a pin bridge. Um I in the most cases people just want to play it with fluorocarbon or nylon strings, so they don't need the pin bridge. Um for uh this just if you ask for playing it with steel string, you would need the pin bridge. That is that's making the difference. Well, it don't both work actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's uh it's it's such a total difference because I have a steel string you here, and of course, plenty of nylon and four carbon ones, and steel strings is a completely different instrument, absolutely as far as I'm concerned. I mean, even the the way that you are able to play the instrument, the traditional techniques don't really work terribly well. It certainly doesn't sound like it, but it's it's so nice to be able to have a hybrid instrument like that where you have the option of which do you want to use in such drastically different um sounds that you can get out of one one instrument.
SPEAKER_02But fingers start to hurt if you're not not into playing steel strings.
SPEAKER_00That's my that's my problem, Tom. I love I love my steel string for for you know five to ten minutes, and then I I want to go back to the nylons because I don't I don't really play guitar anymore. Everything in my life is nylon, and I'm I'm just not tough enough to play steel strings these days. I'm I'm too old for that. Uh um so something that you've been working, I've noticed you're working on with your ukuleles, which which has been done in the classical guitar world for years, and is I've I've found in the classical guitar world can be a bit controversial, and I've seen some other ukulele players start to do this is is double backs. Oh yeah. Your instruments. And this is such a cool concept that when it's when it was first laid out for me, I said, oh yes, that makes total sense. Why would of course why would you not make an instrument like that? Uh so could could you explain the concept of the double back ukulele and what brought you into try is starting to integrate them into some of your instruments?
SPEAKER_02Actually, the the first moment I was thinking about it was sitting sitting down with a good friend, a violin maker, who's saying the uh the wood uh or the back of a violin or a shallow is uh kind of thirty up to forty percent of the tone. And I was like, okay, it's such an important part of the tone because uh the the the how uh the post between the the the top and the back, the sound post, yeah, the strength swinging the the swinging of the front to the back and back to the front, and that makes the whole sound of uh violin, uh viola, uh cello, and and so on. And I was thinking about that, and then of course, playing a guitar with a big body, um you feel how the back is swinging when you play it, yes, but as well you you push it against your your your body, and that kind of stops swinging it, and with the ukulele, you just push it against your body, and the body's there's nothing swinging, it's just like okay, you the you stop the whole thing of uh being part of the sound, and I was thinking, okay, and then uh I put in uh an inner soundboard, the double back, with a sound post, but that doesn't well the and the funny thing that doesn't work, yeah. Interesting, yeah, but that doesn't work because there is a big difference between uh a boat string instrument and plucked string instrument. A boat instrument has a constant tone going for seconds or minutes if you do the bow bow thing right, and that makes it to vibrate for a long time doing and that works with that sound post. Um, but for ukulele, if you pluck the tone for like a pop, it doesn't work, so I had to remove the post, but then the body was swinging, and the difference between an instrument with a double back or not a double back, it's not like a completely different instrument. The character is there, but I think the the range in in case of depth is volume, but not well, not volume in in case of it's not much more louder, but the tones and depth. And treble side are a bit more strong. It's just you you feel you yeah, you definitely feel a difference.
SPEAKER_00As you said, you're allowing that back to vibrate, where generally we we completely mute the back of the instrument, especially people like me who handhold their instrument against them. My back is to the instrument is not in play at all for the sonic characteristics, and this starts to solve that problem.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And as well in that case, it was important to think about what to do with the sights. Um, what you want in my uh ears and eyes, uh, you don't want the sights to uh take apart any of the frequency or swinging. So I'm making uh laminated sights, so they're very stiff and strong. So they just reflect the sound between the top and the double back. So and that is making a very good uh teamwork, and that makes the sound going out of the soundhole like yeah, and well, and you you use some side sound ports with the double back as well, right? I think I've seen on a few of your instruments, but they are important just to allow the inner soundboard to reflect uh properly. If if if they wouldn't be there, it would be like a vacuum chamber, kind of. Well, not completely, but um kind of so you have to have uh that area to to work, so yeah it needs these sound holes to to yeah, just swing properly, properly, and yeah, so that's that's important.
SPEAKER_00Um right to tune things and let the let the sound actually escape the instrument. Um living in Germany, I'm curious as to what uh woods are your favorite to work with. Do you work with with local woods that you can source there, or do you prefer more uh exotic woods as many ukulele players and uh and luthers do?
SPEAKER_02That's a very good question. Um at the moment, um I okay, let's go back to that point. I really love working with um local woods and especially woods I chopped down like six-seven years ago by myself. So I have a couple I have a couple of these trees. That that's a cherry tree, a walnut tree, and a maple tree. Um, and these three are now ready to go or work with because they they tried for more than six years, and um so the most my most favorite wood uh at the moment to work with is it's a walnut tree from Leipzig. That tree was standing in my at my best friend's uh garden at his parents' house. So yeah, but the tree had to go, so we chopped down, and yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh that's you're really but you're making these ukuleles from chopping down the tree to carving everything now now and then, but not not every time.
SPEAKER_02As as well, I just bought some wood from America, some American walnut and cedar uh redwood, so uh in making instruments out of that as well.
SPEAKER_00But are you using the walnut for for tops or is that a back inside's uh actually as as well for tops?
SPEAKER_02And um I use that wood because I got like a bit more of it now, as as that was a whole tree. So I'm and I'm happy with the colour and the sound of it. So I'm using that for my building courses when people come in the workshop and build their own instrument. So I I use that wood because that is just stunning wood and easy to work with, and getting a very nice instrument with less effort if you just use mahogany and uh yeah, spruce, let's say, like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was I was talking to uh Marco Todeschini a few weeks ago, and we were we were talking about you know, he's he's made these paper mache instruments and different and different composite instruments, and his idea on uh how much the soundboard affects things versus the back and sides. And I I'm I'm curious with other Luthers how do you feel about that? Do you think that the soundboard is really the only thing that matters, or do you how much influence do you think the back and side wood choices actually have on the sound instrument? I know you said you you lose use laminate sides for the the double back instrument. Um so do you feel as their the sides especially are maybe more structural, or do you think that they their choice of woods for that has a large impact on the overall sound of the instrument?
SPEAKER_02So I would say if if if I'm not making a double back instrument, well, no, even though if I make a double back or not a double back, I I'm always saying to my clients, it doesn't matter what we use for backhand sites, as long as it looks nice, yeah. Yeah, um, it has to work with the static. So as I'm doing um laminated sites, we can use the nicest, curliest uh wood, and I have to uh clue it to a proper um static high-quality wood, and it works. For the back, we have to look that this surface is being staple, but that's all there's always a way to get it work with with the braces, and yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and what what sort of bracing are you using on the tops of your instruments?
SPEAKER_02Still uh as uh just on my uh mandolele, uh the the mandolin shape ukulele, I use the X-brace, but uh for all the others I do uh if uh Spanish uh lettuce or brace with the with the so rather traditional brace in the instruments if it that's if it's if it works, it works. Absolutely, and I'm still going for that like first day, and I'm actually still working on brace thickness, shape, and bend, but uh I I always use uh the same placing for the braces and just work on that and then just finally uh getting the sound better and better and better, uh hopefully. But it's always important to stay for something um like placing of this of this the braces just so you can work on it. If you do the the placing every time different, yeah, okay, come on. Sometimes works, it doesn't, or whatever. It's like right.
SPEAKER_00And that is something that impacts the sound quite a bit, is the how how you brace that top and how stiff it is in different points of course. And people have been doing it for hundreds of years the same way for good reason, I guess. Because it it indeed works. You you mentioned a moment ago in passing something we should not gloss over, which is is the mandalele. Which you you had mentioned to me last week, and I I I didn't know that you were making this instrument. And is is this your own invention? Oh yes, it is this is such a it it is what it sounds like. It is a property method and it you've got it.
SPEAKER_02There's no patent on it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, no one steal this. This is time.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, just go for it, just go for it. I invented it, I didn't solve that many, so I'm I'm thinking no, but the the story behind that is amazing because um I personally musician-wise come from Irish Scottish folk music. So I play f Irish flute, backpipes, and stuff like that. So this is where my heart is, and so I'm loads in Irish pubs and doing sessions. Well, I used to, not now, but um, so there was one instrument as in guitar or ukulele maker I was just in love with was the Irish Buzuki.
SPEAKER_00Oh, certainly, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Much more than the mandolin, actually. But um I was like, oh, that sound is huge, and I like the the water or teardrop shape of it, and I was and then there was that time I was thinking I have to make a new ukulele model just to get like attention, get the people to to look what you're making, something fresh, something exciting, sure. You have to just be creative, Tom. So and then I was thinking about that, and uh actually it's based on a Buzuki shape, but how how do you call something like with a Buzuki like an ukubuki? Ukuzuki or does it roll off the tongue point? Ukulele, I don't know. So um it was easier to call it a mandol a mandolele and um yeah.
SPEAKER_00Do you are you using standard ukulele tuning?
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely. It's standard ukulele tuning, uh scale of 440 millimeters, and uh yeah, it's it's a huge body. I I me as a as a musician, I would say if you want the best sound in ukulele from Siegen Speck, you have to get a mandolele because that huge, not honestly, but that huge body is like making such a great sound, but yeah. I think I made five of them in in three years, and yeah, it's just too strange for the ukulele players.
SPEAKER_00It's far away from I don't think I don't think anything is too strange for ukulele players. You just need to find the right one. That's uh yeah. If anyone's listening to this, you need a mandalele.
SPEAKER_02But it was in the in the youke magazine in the last one as well, and uh yeah, but I think it's uh I I think people are not really um accepting it. Um the the guys I sold it to are actually Mandolin players, so and ukulele they said okay, I'm happy with the shape because I'm playing that anyway, but I love the the the nice uh soft floor carbone strings and playing ukulele. So uh but yeah.
SPEAKER_00So how do you that that teardrop sort of shape versus the more standard figure eight-ish shape of your uks? Do you do you find that that shape, not just the the overall size of the body, has a massive impact on the sound of the instrument?
SPEAKER_02Sorry, I didn't got that question.
SPEAKER_00So the the teardrop shape that you're using, do you think that that shape impacts the sound greatly as opposed to what it would sound like if you used a standard Tanarukaleli uh shape at the same scale?
SPEAKER_02Because what you have to uh think of is the actual surface swinging below the the bridge is from bottom of the sound hole, so uh from the the lower edge of the sound hole towards the end of the instrument. This is the surface swinging all towards the fragboard, is like kind of stiff area, and that stiff area on that mandolele is the thin part that is not really important, and that surface of the mandolele below the the sound hole is third of the size than a tenor aculele, uh three times uh right, right. So a lot more vibrating area. That is like, oh yeah, there is much more, and then yeah, that absolutely makes the instrument um yeah, more more sounding, more resonant and probably more volume. And as well, the the the the kind of bridge I use that it's not like a towed bridge, right? It's like a put-on bridge, or how like as you use on the violin or mandolin, so and that makes a different uh sustain. These instruments are much more sustaining because there's no toe pressure on the front, it's just a push pressure, or how I don't know how you how you say it. Um but the strings are just pushing on the front and not like on the on the it has it does have to pull, it only has to put up much like a violin, yeah. Yeah, just yeah, push pressure, no pull pressure. Yeah, that's right, and that's making a different sound as well. So and as well, the bridge is just put on, so you can always decompensate whenever you need it. So whatever set of strings you put on, you can just say, okay, two millimeters down, and then the compensation is excellent and perfect.
SPEAKER_00Right. A lot a lot easier to internate than a fixed saddle on a traditional. Absolutely. You maybe this floating bridge is the this is the new thing in the youke world right here.
SPEAKER_02But it looks it works with that mental. I I've seen instruments uh like standard-shaped tenor oculolo with a floating bridge. It just it just doesn't look right. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I have I had you used to have a regal tenor guitar from the 20s that was you know looked like a regular tenor guitar, but had the floating bridge on it. And you're I I always thought it was a really great look, personally. But but I know what you mean about the sound difference on there, the push versus not having the pull. Um it's it's a very different sound on how it kind of vibrates the top of the instrument. Um, it's an interesting one. So, Tom, I have I have one final question for you, and this is this is my question for for everyone that comes on the show. Oh, yes. Um, which is who is your favorite Luthier out there right now that you think is doing new and exciting things in the ukulele world?
SPEAKER_02So, my absolutely biggest heart is at Pete.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, so he's like kind of my father. And um, if he wasn't in the in your show before, definitely go for Pete. I will, and um then it is funny because these are two guys I'm in contact every month. Well, Marco was a bit quiet for a couple of months, but I was just talking to him before you got in touch with me. And uh yeah, this is a guy I'm I'm really uh close. Um if you're going for if you want to to chat to a to a really nice guy from Germany as well who's making uh ukuleles and he's he's a cool guy. His name is uh Rafael Herzberg. Okay, calls uh Russell Ukulele. Oh, yes, yes, yes, I know his instruments, of course. And I'm I'm I'm I'm good with him. Uh we just catch up on festivals, but he's a nice guy, and I would say go for him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Russell is very interesting. I know he made uh an electric for Iso that I've seen. Very, very cool instrument. Um I I didn't actually know his name, I only knew the names of the the ukulele so often. Okay, but I you know you were who Marco mentioned when he was on the show, which which I laughed about because you were already next on my list to contact. So it seemed perfect that I had to reach out to you next. So, Tom, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day and and talking about your instruments with me. I hope everyone listening is has learned a little bit. And I'll link to Tom's website so that you could go stare at his instruments because looking at them is just as important. He has some great video clips up there and you can hear them as well. So thanks again, Tom. Have a great day. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02Take care, my friend.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for listening. This podcast is brought to you by the Magic Ukulele Club, the largest online learning community for jazz ukulele in the world. I'll see you all soon.